tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5978975285518561941.post1456767687331664677..comments2023-08-10T05:01:45.872-07:00Comments on Blog of Myself: Rethinking (Reality-checking) Poeticsa.k.a. "Joe"http://www.blogger.com/profile/09297686120651846304noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5978975285518561941.post-75933968107707816142010-07-22T06:31:40.301-07:002010-07-22T06:31:40.301-07:00Fascinating (it's online). I read a bunch of L...Fascinating (it's online). I read a bunch of London thousands of years ago but somehow missed this. Thanks.Rachel Lodenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07643048091966293914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5978975285518561941.post-64547164089763525022010-07-21T16:32:16.263-07:002010-07-21T16:32:16.263-07:00Oh - and of course, London didn't know about t...Oh - and of course, London didn't know about the impending ecological collapse the industrializing society around him was in the process of precipitating.a.k.a. "Joe"https://www.blogger.com/profile/09297686120651846304noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5978975285518561941.post-58067661374410304722010-07-21T16:30:38.424-07:002010-07-21T16:30:38.424-07:00London's novel is written in the early twentie...London's novel is written in the early twentieth century, about the late twentieth century (or was it twenty-first?), after a plutocratic oligarchy has assumed direct control of the US government and turned it into a militarist state. But the frame narrative takes place much later - the entire account is supposed to have been written millenia after that, when brotherhood and socialism have been around for quite a while. So, things only get better in the far, far, far distant future - when they can look back with pity on us poor slobs.<br /><br />Trotsky said that London had anticipated fascism in The Iron Heel, though there is a kind of neo-feudal facade that rings true today. London obviously wasn't counting on any major near-term victories.a.k.a. "Joe"https://www.blogger.com/profile/09297686120651846304noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5978975285518561941.post-40046851845773017732010-07-21T02:52:55.105-07:002010-07-21T02:52:55.105-07:00Joe, thanks so much for this -- can you expand a l...Joe, thanks so much for this -- can you expand a little on your very interesting comment on The Iron Heel?Rachel Lodenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07643048091966293914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5978975285518561941.post-33227327927482117782010-07-08T08:35:04.254-07:002010-07-08T08:35:04.254-07:00@ Jim - thanks. Seems like people who have done bo...@ Jim - thanks. Seems like people who have done both poetry and organizing recognize the at-best-indirect relation between the two. <br /><br />@ Kris - I love the idea for the pre-burial bumper-sticker. I want a bumper sticker that says: "Environmental bumper-stickers aren't."a.k.a. "Joe"https://www.blogger.com/profile/09297686120651846304noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5978975285518561941.post-49076442233450452512010-07-04T11:17:45.399-07:002010-07-04T11:17:45.399-07:00Whatever change we may have a hand in making will ...Whatever change we may have a hand in making will be changed again in other hands in another time anyway. What I want to do is live. I would put that bumper sticker on my car, and then bury the car. :)Kris H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/14169624386094416697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5978975285518561941.post-23872837099578004172010-07-04T10:32:09.099-07:002010-07-04T10:32:09.099-07:00Joe...good comments. i too enjoyed reading all th...Joe...good comments. i too enjoyed reading all the 'reports' from conference and responded to the Perloff incident at my blog: www.resistingpoetry.blogspot.com.<br /><br />Can't quite see the intrest ramp up for a poetics community response to the world situation...as if any of the arts have pushed society one way or other. Certainly very little examples of theatre, dance, music, scupture, painting, mime, puppets or hollywood/bollywood creating any social movement to create a better life out here. If I work to save a piece of working class history (Hobbs Park Memorial) and stick it in a park for people to look at...poetry has fuckall to do with it and could not help whatsovever. <br /><br />Keep up your talking with Dale. Good to read.<br /><br />mccraryJim McCraryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15653393821253902827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5978975285518561941.post-34374239392082635552010-07-02T06:37:03.156-07:002010-07-02T06:37:03.156-07:00Hey, Joe, I responded to this here: http://possume...Hey, Joe, I responded to this here: http://possumego.blogspot.com/2010/07/response-to-joseph-harrington.html.<br /><br />Best,<br />DaleDalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13285558511682553411noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5978975285518561941.post-38487414066235194912010-07-02T06:13:24.327-07:002010-07-02T06:13:24.327-07:00Joe, I think maybe what's changing in today...Joe, I think maybe what's changing in today's socio-political context is that social movements, based on an exhausted liberalism, can't work. John Robb argues that instead of the movement what we have are "global guerrillas" and "resilient communities." His book "Brave New War: The Next Stage of Terrorism and the End of Globalization" (New York: Wiley, 2007) looks at some of these possibilities. <br /><br />The social movement today can't work for reasons that are obvious, as you describe. Foucault discusses the problem in terms of biopolitics--power controls our flesh. We want to critique the system but rely on it for survival. Deleuze calls it "control society." Capital is total. No way out, at least using models from a time period like the 30s or 60s or whatever, when "movements" made sense.<br /><br />What almost everyone EXCEPT most poets are now discussing is how different kinds of social engagements CAN be used. But the goal is toward social production of relationships that foster survival, system disruption, critical awareness. Poets seem far behind the curve. They cry for social engagement through poetry then throw up their hands saying we can't do anything. Oh well. Back to vitae. I find it a great failure of imagination to take that stance. We can play goofy tricks with language forever. So what? Given what we're living in, adaptation to tools through stealth seem to work for others. It's time poetry thought about this too and looked outside their own concerns to investigate a little how others might use language, images, and performances to do things in the world.<br /><br />Finally, just to bring it back down to the poetic/philosophical for a moment, Wittgenstein said something really interesting: “To imagine a language means to imagine a form of life.” I guess if I were in the business of making bumper stickers or silkscreening shirts, I'd design this: "Forget the social movement, imagine forms of life."Dalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13285558511682553411noreply@blogger.com